It is really hard to give constuctive feedback on ships where the weapon system changes have not been released yet. The Raven really has not made me want to fly these but maybe after the Large Missile changes it will come out in the end.

What the fuck does that even means?

Raven

New raven may be faster than the drake...

CCP Rise have you considered reducing the Rokh's optimal range bonus to say 7.5% or 5% in exchange for more speed and reduced mass or even a combo of damage and range?

Some thoughts about the scorp...

-remove the range bonus entirely replace with a 5% missile damage bonus
-reduce drone bandwidth to 50 like raven
- buff its speed

As it stands right now, a rokh will never snipe because it's outperformed in every way by a naga. As such, blasters are the only viable option for a rokh. However, if it got a damage bonus instead, rails would actually do enough damage to be viable. Blasters would lose range, and be niche.

Right now, rokh is fitted with blasters only as a brawler.

Hmm? The c-types are sold at a very resonable price, if you can afford a rokh hull, you shouldnt have any problems affording a c-type MWD.

With the missiles. Would not having 2 types of cruise missile and buffing torps be a good idea?

Example:

- Long range cruise missiles.
Have faster travel time and sligtly lower explosion radius, current dps

- Short range cruise missiles
Around 35km range, decent dps (think ultraviolet damage and range), slightly higher explosion radius and slower travel time

Scorpion is going to lose a high slot and gain a low slot.

does anyone else think the scorp having 3 bonuses is a bit odd?

What are you on about?
domi has its drone bonus for HP/damage
drone optimal/tracking

but these are combined bonuses im talking very separate bonuses that add a lot per bonus that are unnecessary
the drone bonuses wouldn't work particularly well without the combined bonus which says more about drones lacking...

The reason for the Raven not having a Explosion Radius or Explosion Velocity bonus is because it was designed to use Cruise Missiles not Torpedoes, now with the new Mid slot gained on the Raven you fit a Target Painter so that when you use Tech 2 Fury Cruise Missiles you will apply full damage to Battleships, and with the new Cruise Missile changes with Tech 2 Valkyries you push out 830dps with Fury.

Typhoon has been designed as a Torpedo boat hence the reason for having an Explosion Velocity bonus,

so that you can have either of the following setups so that you can fully apply all of your Torpedo damage:
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I x1
Warp Scrambler II x1
Stasis Webifier II x1
Target Painter II x2

or

Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I x1
Warp Disruptor II x1
Stasis Webifier II x2
Target Painter II x1

Oh my poor, poor Rokh. Why are you so neglected?

First off, quoting CCP Rise: "The Rokh, like most of the former tier 3 battleships, is in a very healthy place currently. "
Supressing riotous laughter and rivers of tears at the ignorance of that statement, I would like to point out that the rokh is, as awful as it is for me to put this in a pun, "Between a Rokh and a hard place." Hybrids are currently broken in the realm of the caldari, as their usefulness is in CCP trying to force Caldari to use just rails, and Gallente just blasters.

it is only usable in huge rr fleets , and now ccp wants to nerf that,soon it will be outplaced by another ship/doctrine and rokh wont be used at all

MWD on a battleship is fail. the sig bloom gives you the signature radius of a small POS. The huge signature radius makes you so easy to hit the increased speed will not help you much. Except for traveling between gates.

Because they die fast and nobody like ECM.

Currently a heavy tanked scorp has 96k ehp that isnt much ,no wonder it is primary it is probably the most paper easy to kill enemy bs on the field.
Proposed scorp can have 119k with armor tank. Dunno where do you get the 129k ehp. And it reaches this putting up 0 signal d.amps, which is similar to dont use dmg mods for dps ships. With 1 signal d.amps it drops to 100k ehp. And with constant ecm nerf its ability to jam is became too weak.
If 7.8 jamm strenght with 97km opt with racional jammers everything maxed sounds good to you , i think you just never tried to use it in actual fight. With 3 jamms it gives you 65% to jamm an average(same race bs as the jammers) enemy bs in your optimal , oh yes that is so threatening. So that they are a threat is more or less due to ecm in the past ,and some people just didnt adapt, and it has nothing to do with actual scorps performance.

Why should i add squad bonuses? I never add them.

suggest to replace the bonus velocity for bonus explosion radius

The Reason because we think so is: in a Real fleet battle the Tank the Rokh fields barely matters, because hundreds of ships are shooting on the primary it doesnt matter if the sniper in question has 25k or 90k ehp.

btw CCP
considering most caldari ships shield tank it is odd that they need to have such a high sig radius to begin with.....??/

Just a heads up, but no one will stop using the Rokh because of a 5% EHP nerf. Or the Drake, come to that.

Hope this helped you more than hyperbole is helping your credibility.

Better damage potential and better tracking at 100km. I am saying exactly that because it is.

Cal navy lead putting the Naga just over 100 km range will maximize the dps for that range, add 3 mag stabs. You can do the same for the Talos, which puts you just under 100km, but you have room for 2 track enhancers to put on the lows.

I think balancing of shield battleships is being done with the assumption that we're fitting XLASBs to them all.

This is why the raven needs another launcher slot.

As for the naga, it is a better sniper at 100km, though not much better. I still feel the talos is a better ship and would keep it as that roll too.

Caldari BS, well 2 of them have issues that need to be looked into. Raven is sub par in terms of combat. As you pointed out, its pretty sad when a Naga can do better dps at that range.
The new cruise buff is nice but not enough if the raven doesnt get another slot.

I don't think I ever seen a rohk being used in pvp, except for that rare newbie who loses it 3 seconds later and have it lol-fitted. Now with Naga and other attack battlecruisers I doubt it have a use at all since its not cost-effective. If anyone have a fit that isn't lol and doesn't include hugging a station all the time or alts with logistics, please post it, I'm really curious.

That link Gypsio posted is helpful, I will take a look at individual Rohk killmails, I bet they all will be fleet-fitted.

You risk making Caldari even more popular with these changes as they already are. Please reconsider the cruise changes.

LOL poke your opponent to death from the backdoor... :)

Anyway Raven will have 7 mids thats plenty ... but i do think cruise raw damage will be excessive now.. which considering the range as well is much better than most turrets are able to reach and you would be aiming it at battleships so the only issue at that point is the speed of the opponent and if they have a counter at all.

Yes but thats with the enemy ship standing still, while moving .... no.. the smaller sig battleships will not be hit for full damage even while standing still.

Seriously, 7 launchers and 7 mids slots, plus the upcoming 20-30%buff to cruise missile damage? That is +1000 DPS at range. Now I am not saying I am against it, as when they rebalance my Navy Raven it will also get a boost, but I don't see them giving the Raven that extra launcher.

7 launchers + 25% Rof means 8.75 effective Launchers.. now lets have a look on the new Hyperion, which gets 9 effective turrets, at the fitting costs of 6...

With fury bud.

You obviously didn't read the restriction to Railguns only........... another blind fool who cant read.

Yeah that is wonderful round down of the math. now make a round down. how the two ship competes against 2 cruiser or bc. now that is where you will see the numbers each ship puts out differ hugely. Don't forget to factor in the tp bonus too

Is the Odyssey Raven that much better than the one available now? Really aren't we looking at a good Raven combat system because cruise missiles are getting a major buff?

The Raven platform itself, little used by many accounts before Odyssey, isn't getting a major buff.

For cruises raven's range bonus is....well...I will not say useless but it is of secondary importance. For this kind of setup phoons bonus will be actually more useful as there will probably be no webs involved and for possible cruiser/t3 opponents additional painters and exp vel bonus will prove more effective on applied total damage.

Apparently he used 540 sig instead of 330 for the 3rd term of function.

Which is the problem, putting rigors on the raven will hurt its already weak tank.

The math was done, it was only slightly lower than the ravens new tank. What separates the two is that the phoon has a battlecruiser sig? Surely that wouldnt play into how well the ship deals with incoming damage at all.

oh its certainly important, but at battleship scale its "relatively" unimportant, once you consider that the only weapons which have trouble applying full damage to battleships are other battleship or capital weapon systems.

its important, but relatively unimportant at this stage ^^

Until the evolution of the Blaster Rokh this ship found little use at all on the battlefield.

...the Rokh find's itself an unlikely choice for such operations especially considering it's price tag.

I don't understand how the 'geddon isn't also classed as a disruption BS tbh.

I can't see many scenarios where a scorp will be preferable to a geddon, blackbird's do the job with 80-90% of the effectiveness for 10% of the price.